My point is I am willing to take Landmark at their word that a certain percentage of people will be seriously psychologically harmed by attending this event and some times it is not predictable who. I don’t ask anyone to believe me I just read this from the disclaimer on their website and it jibes pretty closely with what the people who have taken the training complained about the thing the most loudly. From what I can ascertain there is no way of being certain just who will or will not be susceptible to this kind of mental damage and Landmark does a piss poor job of keeping people out who obviously shouldn’t do it. I am not willing to play Russian roulette with my health.

No offense taken at all. You guys have put forth a great many arguments for your positions worthy of thought. This has been very interesting.

The sales reps are playing their ‘game’ and they have no respect or regard for their victims to make their own decisions. It’s hypocritical, but I maintain that still is harmless because most people don’t allow themselves to succumb to such pressure. I reckon when sales start to drop, they’ll take on a different approach, in line with the evolution selling vaccuum cleaners and Amway which are both examples of short term successful selling techniques that saturated and alienated potential customers until they had no hope at all! (if that makes sense)

I agree with your viewpoint on their arrogance “that if you didn’t hear it from us, you didn’t hear it” …. it’s very much ‘do it our way or not at all’. I overcame this by pinching about ten copies of the pamphlet they used to use at intros. I kept them at home and gave them to people whom showed an interest in my wisdom, which I openly admit to drawing partially from Landmark. If someone is interested I instruct them to bypass the whole intro scheme and just insist they sign up…. Last year I was in the room listening to my friend say to the Landmarkian “well how does get fucked sound” when she started telling him he had to do an intro first. he said, do you want to take my credit card numbers or do you want me to hang up, she continued with her spiel and he said, ‘what’s your last name? do you have the authority to block me from the course?’

Obviously i put him up to it, I also counselled him prior to doing the course. I found it most satisfying that he returned from the course saying he got heaps out of it and he was so glad he followed the approach I recommended.

So, to all you ‘resigned and cynical’ folk out there – do the course, but just don;t buy into their unethical business practices. Lie your arses off to them and the end result will be that you’ve got what you paid for and not sacrificed any further, to their benefit!

It’s been a healthy debate, I hope I haven’t offended anyone. I really don’t give a fuck about it, but i do think that people who have done the course have more credibility in this type of discussion.

it’s the sales techniques that i would be concerned about, as i said in the original post. CIA mindfuck shit. i don’t know what they’re teaching their sales reps exactly, but i’m reasonably sure they are teaching it. and its not all fucking roses.

the other issue i have with them is their arrogance. the attitude that says “if you haven’t heard it from us, you just haven’t heard it.” the hubris to suggest that landmark forum is different and better than any other self-help products or experiences. the only true path to wisdom. remember that old chestnut: follow those who seek the truth; run from those who claim to have found it.

in every brilliant teacher i’ve had, there is a certain humility. there is a genuine desire for the student to become greater, and it exists without preconceptions – instead, it is flexible, it is peaceful and patient. in japan, they say “if a student does not excel the teacher, then the teacher is a failure.” i did not find that humility in the landmark forum.

Doug, why are you so afraid my man??? Unwanted side affects? Material that’s not presented in an open and honest manner?

My point is this; Do the god damn course and then criticise it all you want.

Until you’ve done it, you merely think you know what you’re talking about. All you’re doing is just collating other people’s opinions, which are of varying degrees of accuracy and/or bias.

For your information, the material is not presented entirely honestly. The underlying theme is the relentless encouragement of participants to recruit others into the course. But it is blatant and unapologetic, there isn’t anything even slightly subliminal about it.

There were no ‘unwanted side affects’, nothing a person of your intellect wouldn’t be aware of.

My point to Adronikus was simply that the potential for psychological injury is there and that just because the teaching and the possibility to pick up women exists it doesn’t mean that you can pick unwanted side effects also.

A good site for the Self help discussion is Steve Salerno’s SHAMblog
http://shambook.blogspot.com/2010/06/trouble-with-self-help-part-1.html

this is the single most important thing anyone has written in the comments.

You might want to check out this website before you attend.
http://www.visionandpsychosis.net/
Good luck to you and your friends